Anyone else seen a "ThairAglide" addition?

Seen on UK eBay

ThairAglide

Hi Chris,

Yeah, I saw it - and almost got a little upset by it!

I am working on a "capacitive ribbon" controller which was to work in quite a similar way, except it was to be a 60cm tube one runs ones hand along..

The ThairAglide is interesting, alas the demo is so awful one cannot get any idea about how good or otherwise it is.. Its a real simple thing to do - a few capacitors in series taken to pads, so one confines the field to the vicinity of the sensor array.

I do think that this is the direction for future theremin replacement instruments - I think the idea of proximity as a control method is daft, and the one flaw in the theremin concept, and that a linear playing surface which one doesnt need to touch (but can if you want) which is not subject to electrical / capacitive / environment and not subject to other people / objects interfering, would (will! ;-) hugely improve the theremin and make it far more playable.

But it certainly wont have the visual / novelty appeal... And it wont be a theremin - it will be a new instrument with features from the theremin and the tannerin.

Fred.

"Its a real simple thing to do - a few capacitors in series taken to pads, so one confines the field to the vicinity of the sensor array."

I suspect this might be EVEN SIMPLER...

Looks to be a diagonal antenna, embedded in the frame,

with angular proximity controlled by lateral movement,

fine-tuned by exposing more or less of the palm in any one position.

Hi Elmo,

You could be right. If the angular antenna is correctly (for the given theremin) capacitively loaded and coupled, then it may well be a short range (near field) proximity sensor with the frame defining the 'to hand' coupling.

Fred.

After seeing this "gadget", I am not convinced that it will turn the theremin into a more "User Friendly" instrument. I feel that resting your hand on an object can truly restrain your ability to shape notes and have control of that dynamic when done that way. 

I am really sorry to say this, but anyone who knows how a theremin works, and how much discipline it takes for a musician to play one VERY well will not be fooled by this "ThairAglide" thingie. It will never replace the acquired ability of a fine theremin player in action ... To see a player being "one" with its instrument, making gorgeous music out of thin air...

You tell ‘em Amey! I agree 100%!

Over the years I have seen many attempts to - some of them quite original - to simplify precision theremin playing and make it easier by taking the guesswork out of it. All of these ideas have involved contact with something: a wire, a string, a smooth surface of some kind, a silk thread, etc. etc. but none of them have worked. 

The moment you anchor your pitch hand to something, it can no longer engage in the free flight upon which the characteristic sound of the theremin depends. You can’t tie a string to the leg of a butterfly and expect it to take off.

There are plenty of electronic interfaces that provide continuous control, are more versatile than the theremin, and that take the guesswork out of pitch control. The ondes martenot, the tannerin and the Haken Continuum come immediately to mind. But none of these instruments, as expressive and unique as they may be in their own way, has the ineffable quality of soul that the theremin has when it is skillfully played.

Judging from the only demonstration of the “Thair-A-glide” I could find on YT, the instrument seems to be an example of one more theremin shortcut devised by someone who does not appear to have even so much as a vestige of music in him! I’m sure he is a lovely man, but musically speaking he’s a bust! 

The fatal error with these inventors, and I have seen an army of them, is that they do not have enough music in them to know why people find their inventions disappointing. 

Coalport wrote: "The fatal error with these inventors, and I have seen an army of them, is that they do not have enough music in them to know why people find their inventions disappointing."

Exactly... !

LOL ;-)

Rather a broad brush being used here, not to mention generalization..

Amey, I fully understand your pride and "ownership" of your ability to play the theremin so well  - " It will never replace the acquired ability of a fine theremin player in action ".. You are member of an exclusive club, a club one can only join if you have the abilities and put the effort in - You have Earned the right to be in this club.  The idea of the doors being opened and that any anyone who has messed about for a few hours is "qualified" - Yeah, its not a nice idea.

The “Thair-A-glide” looks to me like a toy.. But even if it wasn't, it wouldn't be for everyone - And anyway, whatever the interface, no interface (on its own) will ever turn anyone into a master musician.

What "new" interfaces MAY do is to allow easier access to playing for the masses.. A linear "keyboard like" control surface MAY allow people to play tunes and the like to an acceptable standard - allow those who are not into spending hours mastering the instrument to at least gain sufficient mastery to use the theremin musically. If the interface is well designed, it should allow more advanced playing techniques to develop - and at best would be capable of allowing the same degree of freedom the proximity theremin does - But this would still only be available to those with the skills who spent the time to master the interface.

There are also those (myself included) for whom the physical demands of proximity sensing (having to keep an arm outstretched and maintain control) make it a bad choice - A horizontal capacitive "ribbon" which senses the hands (horizontal) position above it, does not need to be touched so presents no restriction of movement, and which one can touch and slide or rest your hand on.... Ok, one may never manage to be a PP or LK or Amey with it, but it would certainly beat any automated quantizing.

" It will never replace the acquired ability of a fine theremin player in action ... To see a player being "one" with its instrument, making gorgeous music out of thin air..." - Amey

The "making gorgeous music out of thin air" is something only a (large field) proximity sensing instrument will ever be likely to do.. From a visual / performance perspective, nothing beats the theremin!  As for being "one" with the instrument, the “Thair-A-glide” does not change this, nor will any capacitive ribbon sensor.. In fact, the major difference is that such controllers confine the "being one" almost exclusively to the player, whereas with the theremin, its "one" with the player but also "one" with every other object and person in its vicinity!

"The fatal error with these inventors, and I have seen an army of them, is that they do not have enough music in them to know why people find their inventions disappointing. " - Colaport

Are you sure that its because " they do not have enough music in them "? - Could it not just be that for every 10 great ideas, less than one sees the light of day... Could it perhaps be that a lot of real invention gets stamped on by established SIG's who are (or feel) threatened by them..

Whereas some unplayable rubbish will get bought by hoards of devotees simply because it has some sacred icon on it.

Fred.

Freddie, not only have you changed my name (I am now “colaport”…which I love!) but you seem to be reinterpreting my remarks. I stand by my original statement in reference to the inventor of the Thair-a-glide and those of his ilk: "The fatal error with these inventors, and I have seen an army of them, is that they do not have enough music in them to know why people find their inventions disappointing."

I do not mean to suggest that these people do not love music. On the contrary, with many of them music is among the most important things in their lives. The problem is that they are not musically gifted in any way and often have no musical “sense” whatsoever. You are right, however, when you suggest that their inventions can appeal to certain people - specifically, people who are as unmusical as themselves. 

Yes, I know, this sounds unbelievably arrogant and elitist but I am only expressing what genuinely musical people already know and say to one another, but dare not say openly. 

Sarah Rice made an interesting observation recently in another theremin forum. She had been reading a book about human psychology and behavior, in which the author noted (and I paraphrase) that our belief in the excellence of our own musical performance varies inversely with our talent and skill. IOW, the worse you are, the less you are liable to realize it.  😝

As for your remark, “….Whereas some unplayable rubbish will get bought by hoards of devotees simply because it has some sacred icon on it.” I cannot imagine what you might be referring to! 

I like the religious reference (“sacred icon”) because musical taste and preference is very much like religious belief. “We must respect the other fellow’s religion, but only in the sense and to the extent that we respect his theory that his wife is beautiful and his children smart.”

And from the same author who wrote the quote above, H. L. Mencken, “The more uncivilized the man, the surer he is that he knows precisely what is right and what is wrong.”   LOL

Hi Cola ;-)

Yes, I know - everything you and Amey said was "true" or at least valid...

But you know me - I need an occasional argument, and you are one of the few people who its real fun to spar with! ;-)

Regarding quotes, I have just read an article about some synth modules in Sound On Sound and a comment there seemed resonant:

"In general, I hate the concept of 'democratising' anything because it usually means reducing it to the lowest possible denominator while devaluing the commitment, work and talent of anyone who spends years mastering a skill."

But I do think this fear "devaluing the commitment" is unjustified for music or art, because I do not believe that any machine / processor is anywhere close (yet) to the quirkiness required to emulate the human creative processes - Many tasks are being "handed over" to machines, but these are logical technical "inhuman" things, and yes - they do "devalue" "the commitment, work and talent of anyone who spends years mastering a skill."" - but I think there will always be people who will recognize and appreciate music / art created by people!

Fred.